Storm's Blog

I have chosen to base my magazine article that I will be designing for my current project on the Greek designer Vasilis Marmatakis. The reason why is because I have never really payed much attention to Greek design and being half Greek myself, I would really like to get in touch with my roots, so to say. He speaks about the comparison of Greek design to European design and I thought it would be quite interesting to research into and see how the Greeks perceive other cultures and their designs as well as their own.

Marmatakis's designs tends to be quite simple and very clean and professional looking. He doesn't use many illustrations or anything complicated. I believe I could learn a lot from him and his work.

Interview

VM: You are listening to typeradio. My name is Vasilis Marmatakis

KP: And my name is Katerina Papanagiotou

VM & KP: Now we’re talking

Donald: You are listening to Typeradio, my name is Donald

Lisa: I’m Lisa

Donald: It’s May 28^th 2010, we’re at the European Design Awards in Rotterdam and our guest is Vasilis Marmatakis.

Donald: First question- Is there such a thing in your view as European Design

VM: Well yes there is a scene, that what we’re talking about from every country that if you’re talking about a style I think it’s mingling now, but I wouldn’t see something and say “that’s European” or something else and say “that’s American” or there is but I think they’re all mixed now. So...

Lisa: So there’s nothing-typical European?

VM: Typical European, no, there’s a typical thing in each countries, for example you can see something that you say ok that’s very Swiss, or say “oh that’s Greek or Italian”, you can say that but you wouldn’t say that’s a whole European, like one thing. And that’s why it’s interesting.

Lisa: And so what do you think is typical Dutch?

VM: Typical Dutch, umm very clean typography, quite, if that’s right what I’m thinking of; quite explanatory and there is always another level to it as well, thinking of some works. But very straightforward as well.

Lisa: And Greek?

VM: and Greek design, I would say that, I mean we do appreciate whenever a Greek designer has elements of
Greek-ness to it, so I don’t know, for us Greek design is things that you see everyday from ??? System, or not system because it’s not a system ???? not system so that’s a Greek design. Or you know things that you find in civil services, you know like all those moldy copied, you know moldy copied papers that you have to fill in so that’s like another Greek element. What else? … And now slowly we’re kind of getting more, it gets cleaner and cleaner, which I don’t know if it’s a good thing because its more European thing; what you mentioned before.

Lisa: So do you think you’re a typical Greek?

VM: In?

Lisa: In your work? Are you cleaner in that sense?

VM: We as, not typical in a way of cleaning ness, but we do like things to be straightforward. So, if example there is a poster that was just full of type we wouldn’t say its clean but its straightforward. We like to keep things simple not clean as designers.

Donald: I’ve sensed a little bit of disappointment in your voice, when you said that, you think that local design culture is losing its characteristics because of this globalization and the European Union and the boundaries…

VM: Yes. Full Stop.

Donald: I mean do you feel sorry about that?

VM: I feel sorry about that because, I mean especially with Greece it’s, you know I’m tired of listening to there’s no heritage in design and we don’t have like you know the Swiss, and I think its wrong cause there is, like for centuries it goes back its just not very easy to find because it has not been systematically categorized, but its there. So one thing that its, out of the question is this, you know that we don’t have heritage in design that’s why everything is like this and because of this and because of that and its not true its there; so what was the question again?

Donald: IF you feel sorry about that…

VM: I do

Donald: … local design culture is losing its characteristics..

VM: I do, I do, I mean we are all looking at foreign magazine and some graphic design and they all tend to look kind of you know the same. Like those 3-4 really good magazines. We do get to see the same kind of work and plus in our work there are trends every now and then and you know a few years ago, there was a trend with all those floral and things mixing up and then it goes through another phase. Now it gets more to like a rougher sense, so that affects as well and the fact that you are informed by that through internet, through, because before you were not, so that affects as well. All the people are getting the same information, so that’s…

Donald: and do you take action or do you take steps to preserve Greek design culture in your own work?

VM: In our, what we do yes, we have been working a lot with clients that are national Greek companies like The National Greek Theatre or the new identity of the National Greek Theatre or the new Acropolis museum, or the Greek telecommunication services, I’m just mentioning some examples that we have worked on and we have tried as much as we can to get not the Greekness in the sense of ancient or whatever someone thinks of. But of contemporary Greek-ness, which is simplicity and all that, not in a forlorn kind of way but yes we have through those works.

Lisa: And how do you work together? Well how did you start and what is your relation, I mean working relationship?

VM: We use to work together in an advertising agency and that’s were we took off and we did our own studio and I think we respect each others work and that’s the basis of it, we respect each others opinion and right now, Katerina is working more on her own at the office, there’s a bit where I’m taking some time off to do some things on the side, so right now we’re not, right now working together; so Katerina is running the studio mostly, as we speak. But our collaboration has been based on, respect.

Lisa: But you go under one name correct?

VM: Yes, yes.

Lisa: But how do you , sort of in this design process, is there a, you say “Ok this Is what I want to do”, is there a head and a heart or is it a joint…

VM: No it’s a good cop, bad cop with clients. Some things for example with some clients I’m the bad cop and she’s the good cop so, it depends who is going to talk to whom. (laughs). She’s the bad cop mostly. So yes that’s how its been going on, so far.

Donald: and how many people are in your studio?

VM: Well its three all together. As I said I’m an external right now, so its Katerina and two more people.
Lisa: And for example you studied abroad, do you think if you hadn’t done that then you wouldn’t be where you are? Do you think that was important? To go abroad and then to come back to Greece? Or it makes no difference?

VM: It was abroad as an experience, it was yeah, it was important and it has helped me a lot apart from the fact that I still have a lot of friends from abroad that we hang out, but yes it has helped. You know living abroad in general helps, its good for someone to do for a few years before going back to his country, because you hopefully get all the good things back, so I think yes.

Lisa: Did you also? Did you leave also?

KP: No.

VM: Katerina studied in ??? in Greece

Lisa: But do you think there is a difference then, between the two of you?

VM: There is. Even through out the 4 years, if we say 4 years of work, it has been different. What we have studied is different, like the classes are different, the projects are different.

KP: Giauto ine endiaferon.

VM: And this is very interesting, the fact that comes together.

Lisa: For example?

VM: Yeah, I think I briefs well, my briefs in London were a bit more free and a bit more creative through out, even from the beginning. While in Greece Katerina they have studied, they’re a bit more tight. They’re not so free. Like the principles, the history and the history of the lettering and calligraphy and we never did those, I mean I never did those in England.

Lisa: That’s because you missed the classes (laughs)

VM: No, I’ve been there since Foundation (laughs)

Donald: As the economic recession of last year, financial crisis that we are having now, is that affecting your work and your studio?

VM: It has, because right now it’s the worst moment because everyone is panicking. So it hasn’t come that yet, all bad, but everyone is panic and that’s the worst. Like clients try to minimize their expenses, their stopping from doing a lot of works that were scheduled to do, just from panicking, not from actually not having the money right now, but from panicking and we think that this is, it has obviously affected us and it will but we just think that Greece is the first of the countries to happen; so its…

Donald: Do you have any expectations on what will happen?

VM: Umm, well one thing that will happen is that well I think the most difficult is for the bigger companies, with a lot of employees, because they are a lot more difficult to handle, whilst the smaller companies, you know they’re more flexible, so they can kind of figure out their clients and their expenses. So that’s one thing that’s going to affect the most, like big companies and even bigger design studios, advertising agencies, were they get a lot of money off you know, advertising and television and broadcasting.

Lisa: And do you take any action like with design to do anything about it or its not?

VM: I think its, because like I said its still a part of the panic, we’re all apart of this yet, but we are very optimistic that good things, is not happening, well it might be happening, well its not happening for a good thing but good things are going to come out of it. We’re pretty sure that people are going to get together and even within the design community and do things on their own and even be more supportive with each other. So that’s the hopeful.

Lisa: Is it competitive in the Greek design community?

VM: yes, it is, its is. It’s a small community, everyone knows everyone and what happens is what happens everywere. I mean there are a few design studios that there are friends and they are supportive with each other and you know there are other offices who are friends with some other people; so they’re supportive within, as it has always been. It might, we pretty sure it will get, more difficult, its going to be, like even more competitive than that.

Donald: And do you run into the same people, with ??? into the bigger companies? Do run into the same group design studios that are doing the pitches for the same…

VM: Yes, we do. Yes, it has happened quite a few times that we find out that we are in the same pitch with friends, so I mean what we, our policy is like to phone them up and say “You know we’re in the same pitch” and sometime we even discuss, like the financial proposals, so its not going to be the money, why we’re going to be chosen but because of the work. So we’re trying to be really straight with that, within friends.

Lisa: I think that’s quite a nice idea. But do you know, like would you reduce your price, right the last minute and…

VM: No, that’s the thing, within friends, I mean first of all its something that you’re going to find out. You’re going to find out so there’s no way you would do that. But its not moral to do it but anyway its going to be out.

Lisa: But no client has played against the two of you, that said “Oh he’s given me, 1000 less”…

VM: It has happened before, but our policy for that is, our belief is that clients should come to us because they like the work not because we are cheap. So that’s not why we want them here.

Donald: How important are design competitions and design awards for you?

VM: They’re important to our clients. Its good for them because they re-assure their decision to pick you as a deisgn studio, so that’s good for future work. It’s a reassurement for them and it’s a re-assurement for us as well, because you know, your work has been recognized and “Oh it won an award by the way”; and its good for the portfolio as well. And also we do believe that some of our, we are taking part every now and then in these kind of competitions, although we do believe that works that we really love, like some of our favorite stuff, have even gone through the finals. So we don’t think if its been awarded, it means that its good, like no way we think that.

Donald: And do you think you can, because with different clients and different circumstances and different briefs, do you think its even possible to compare different designs in a competition?

VM: In a competition, yes, there are so many factors for that. It’s the budget and you know it’s a bit unfair if someone has a budget to do a book that’s a huge amount of money, with someone who doesn’t or for example with the music packaging we have been involved to, you know you get for example Metallica, they won the first, like the European Awards prize was a really luxurious box. We cannot compare with some indie labels that we have worked on, but then again, you know would I buy that metallica box? Its all subjective so…

Lisa: (laughs) Would you buy it?

VM: mmmm no! (laughs)

Lisa: Also for the European Design Awards its also different countries and different, well would you say its different levels or not really?

VM: Different levels in what way?

Lisa: would you say that there’s a, for example in Holland, when you say that in Greece there is a lot of people complain that there’s not a lot of design history, it is there but its not comparable say to the Dutch. Is that unfair competition do you think, once you are competing against the…

VM: No. Den Ine adiko (Its not unfair)

KP: Oxi Oxi (No, No)

VM: No its not, we don’t think its unfair. You know its work that has been done right now, so if you look at the graphic design now, ok what is there? Greece, ok three works, ok ten works from Holland, three works from Greece, twenty works from Germany, but that’s what there is, so in a way yes its fair; we don’t think its unfair. It has to do a lot also, with all these awards, who is sending work because there are people who we admire and we love their work that they don’t take part in any of those competitions, you know they keep on doing their work. So that is an element, its not that you get an annual and you think “Ah so that’s what’s happening”, no there’s like other things happening as well. These are the things that actually people bother to send to the competition.

Donald: And who are your design heroes?

VM: Brokmann? Joseph Muller Brokmann.. If we were to say one, we’ll just mention this. And from Greece Katsourakis ??? they were in the 60’s working and we absolutely love. They’re up there with Brokmann. And they’re still alive and they’re not very active within the graphic design but they’re you know…

Donald: Have you met them?

VM: We’re meeting them next week. (laughs) We’re very excited.

Donald: How exciting.

Lisa: How old are they?

VM: In their 80’s? 80 something. Between 70-80. But we were thinking like a few years ago, we thought ok, how amazing would it be for them to design our logo.

Lisa: So what did you do? Did you ask them?

VM: No, no we didn’t ask them.

Lisa: Why not?

VM: Because they’re not working now, they’re not taking jobs anymore, but you know we were thinking how amazing that will be. But anyway we’re meeting them next week.

Lisa: Is it a special occasion?

VM: It is a special occasion, its going to be a conference which has to do with promoting Greek culture abroad and its organized by the ministry of culture and the idea is that they’re going to have the old school graphic designer’s, so its going to be them talking in a conversation with like people who are working now, which its going to be us. So that’s going to be really amazing.

Lisa: Wow. That’s an honor.

Donald: Last question- What design job that you did are you most proud of? Or what design job changed your career or your life or your professional life? Is there one job you know…

VM: I don’t know we’re thinking that there is one. I don’t know, because it’s a process exactly, it’s a process and then one thing leads to another and that leads to another and that leads to another, its like small pieces, we wouldn’t say one, to be our favorite. And we kind of like most of the things that we have done, which is good. We don’t have, for example before we go to a presentation if there’s, we’re looking at the stuff we’re going to present, if there is one thing that we are not sure, we’re not showing it. We call it our little exhibition, that’s how we call it before the presentation, its like a little exhibition where we’re like hmm, that we’re not very sure of, they might take it and we take it off. So things that we are sure of, we like them and we try to keep them as nice as possible throughout the process.

Lisa & Donald: Ok Thank you.

VM: Thank you.